Fixed:
The only winning move is not to play.
A Christian girl once told me that she couldn’t date me because I was a non believer. I could tell it hurt her to say it, but it seemed like genuine conviction.
It’s a shame, because she was lovely.
Bullet dodged.
Sad when people let superstitions prevent them from living the life they want.
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a “Christian” university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that’s about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
My experience as an atheist has been me holding a shield with them having a sword. I don’t really have any interest in talking about God with anyone.
Right? I’ve gotten “Aren’t you worried about going to Hell?”
Just… no.
My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it’s a cultural thing, though. I’m British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don’t have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to “convert” me before.
I’m guessing it’s a certainty thing. From what I’ve seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they’re right.
And there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.
Someone brought up religion, or god. Is it the athiests?
I will absolutely push back if something brings up religion.
It would be silly if a Christian tried to convert you, an already converted Christian. Maybe there’s some confirmation bias at work?
It always starts from the assumption that I’m an atheist too. They’re all friends, by the way, so don’t picture some kind of weird high-pressure pitches on the street.
Also I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to conflate being atheist and being anti-religious - my friend in this story however is in the “religion is ultimately the cause of every war in history” camp.
Anyway, very basically, I’d done something nice. Another work friend was talking about it, and my anti-religion friend responded with “see, he’s an objectively nice person, no religion needed or anything”. And it was at this point I revealed my secret identity, and the discussion began.
Just for balance, over my 44 years, I’ve also had a Scientology pitch, a Jehovah’s Witnesses pitch (old-school knocking on the door style), and an uncomfortably high-pressure pitch from what I’m sure was one of those churches set up to scam immigrants.
But outside of those, the main people who have tried to change me have been friends with strong anti-religious views.
I live in the US and in real life Ive had far more atheists be assholes about religion. That said, Christians are in power, so they likely dont feel the need to be so loud.
The Christian belief is as trivially obviously fake as Zeus and has done a lot of harm
What did the atheists try to “convert” you to?
Hmm. I’m going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I’ll try to help.
I’m guessing from the phrasing that you’re not aware, but if you’re trying to change someone’s belief system, it’s called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the “atheism isn’t a belief, it’s a lack of a belief” thing, but unfortunately that’s how the language works in this case.
Nope. They’re right. Conversation has a destination. Pointing out the flaws in YOUR beliefs isn’t telling you where to end up, only where to leave from.
That’s just deprogramming.
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot “convert” someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
Sorry, but it’s true. I’m afraid you’re going to have to take it up with a higher authority than me (i.e. the dictionary people) if you want to change how the word is used.
It’s the word for changing someone’s belief system not, as you seem to think, giving someone a new belief system.
Sorry, but I’m correct here.
Also, here’s additional lesson for you - you started your reply admitting that the question was asked in bad faith, that I did spot what you were talking about, and that you do know that I’m talking about atheism. Then you finish with “so my question stands”.
No it doesn’t. You understood fully what I was talking about in both the post you replied to and my response. So it doesn’t stand - you already knew the answer.
Look, I don’t mind you having a crack at being Mr I’m-Very-Clever-Catch-You-Out-On-Word-Meanings, but at least do it well.
According to the first page of my search the Cambridge, Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, Collins dictionaries all imply conversion needs also adopting a new belief/opinion/religion.
I feel it’s a commonly propagated lie within certain religions that atheism is a belief, which of course it’s not (it’s the lack of belief, like most people have about fairies, flat Earth or the Mayan end of the world). I don’t know if your mention of this statement is that you agree or not, but if you do - how do you arrive at the position that questioning is being the same as (lexical) conversion?
I get that a large part of Abrahamitic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be accepted in the religion (and not a heretic); is it that the questioning positions you outside of the religion and thus deconverts? Is that how you arrive at the “change”?
I apologise for the clumsy phrasing, but if we’re reading the same text and coming to different conclusions, I must assume we’re using words differently and would need to backtrack to find our last point of common understanding.
No, it’s fine.
I’ve grabbed your Collins as an example - I promise it’s not been cherry-picked, it was the first I clicked on!
“If someone converts you, they persuade you to change your religious or political beliefs. You can also say that someone converts to a different religion.”
Would it qualify as changing my religious beliefs? I think so. It’s you that’s inferring that it needs to be to another religion.
Ok, second part.
“I get that a large part of Abrahamic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be adopted into the religion”
No you don’t, because you’re wrong. I don’t mean that in a harsh way - it’s easy to look at listen to all of the hard-line religious folk and think that’s the norm. The truth is that they’re weirdos.
A big part of most Abrahamic religions is questioning the dogma, theology, even the scripture. It’s been this way forever too.
And yes historically, bad people have used religions (and still do) as a pretext for horrific atrocities, but unfortunately that’s a problem with any organisation that places too much power on an unhinged leader.
Look, an example might help. A little while back, the Church of England put out a statement about how they didn’t intend to change their stance on not allowing gay marriage in churches. It was, to my eyes, an utterly unnecessary statement to make, and moreover, completely at odds with the “unconditional love” message.
I asked my vicar if we could talk about it and explained that I don’t feel comfortable being associated with a religion that publicly makes statements like that.
I found out that she herself has performed several same-sex marriages, just not in a church. As have many of the other vicars around here. Some haven’t. Her mentor in the church is transexual, not secret - she’s written a book about it.
The truth is that the upper ranks of the Anglican church are trying to prevent a schism with the more hard-line Anglican churches in Africa. The statement was just one of many that have been put out, it’s just that this one got attention from the press.
The rank-and-file vicars don’t even share exactly the same theology as each other. Like I said, many officiate same-sex marriages, some will not. Some believe that when people die, their souls go straight to heaven or watch over us, some do not (why wouldn’t they? Well, it isn’t actually in the Bible).
There’s a wide, wide range of interpretations and you are encouraged to keep asking questions.
Like I said, it’s easy to look at the loud people and think they’re the norm - but it’s not the case. They’re the very, very vocal minority.
Yikes I’ve written way more than intended. I hope that helps!
Just venting…
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
I grew up Christian in a place where most people were atheist, went to a Christian school, where about half the students were Christian and the other was atheist, then moved to different places all over. My experience through all of that was always: Regular people in either group mostly don’t give a shit and just want to live their own lives. The “Christians” you see on TV are not normal people.
I grew up agnostic/atheist in the Bible Belt. There was a lot of casual discrimination, ostracism, and judgement if you weren’t Christian. Even among different churches. I’d have loved for there have been more Christians like you, but unfortunately the TV/Fox News Christians are all over the place down there.
Yea. Those types don’t just exist on TV, they are everyday people in our communities for some of us. To just say they aren’t “normal” erases the lived experiences of those who live where these mentalities are still very much the norm for that locality.
How does saying that such hostile treatment is abnormal “erase” anyone’s lived experiences?
If you tell someone who lived only eating one meal a day during elementary school that they did not have a normal childhood, you are directly commenting ON their “lived experience”, not erasing it.
You seem to be conflating “that’s not normal” with “that never happens”, which is not reasonable.
The weird shit on tv is incredibly common in the south
I still think it’s proportionally right to say “that’s not normal”. Maybe it’s normal in the Southern United States, but it’s definitely not normal compared with the rest of Christendom.
30-40% in the US believe in young earth creationism
Not the fringest of beliefs. I find the whole ken ham “science is wrong” thing bizarre. But I think the “it was created old” view holds more water
I’m a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
Do you believe your wife will go to hell?
No. I don’t believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It’s in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn’t recognize him is not a loving God, it’s a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don’t expect an eternal reward for that.
Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?
I’d say she’s agnostic atheist. She doesn’t know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn’t care.
You sound like a very good person.
I think you get what I believe religion is supposed to be about.
And that’s nice to see :) keep it up!But if someone is an atheist and doesn’t want anything to do with God, won’t God respect their decision?
I don’t know. The Bible don’t speak that much after the afterlife. Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly (Luke 17:21), the Old Testament is almost only interested in how to follow God here and now, even the book of Revelation is, if read correctly, more a veiled criticism of the politics of Roman Empire than a prediction. The only one who spoke a lot about the afterlife is Paul, but if he’s clear about who will be saved, he’s not about who won’t. That’s why I spoke about a mystery; but I trust God to make the best decision.
Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly
Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. And more about hell than anyone else in the Bible.
Paul is quite clear.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 2:12-16
For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:22-25
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It’s a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it’s not theologically serious.
The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can’t cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you’ll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.
Imagine someone who’d come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn’t exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.
I don’t deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn’t sit around and say “you do you, live your truth”. He said “take up your cross, and follow Me”.
Personally, I’m an atheist (anti-theist to be more precise), but I’ll say that in my experience catholic christians tend to be less culty than protestant christians. Probably has something to do with the part that catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need.
catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need
Wtf ?
That’s false, the creator of this comic is just trying to spread hate
Catholics, christians, atheism, veganism.
It’s all the same to me. If they don’t leave any room to speculate, learn, and grow beyond existing beliefs what’s the point of living. 🤔
If only those people who don’t already have a religious affiliation weren’t so closed-minded, they might be able to adhere to a specific religious affiliation. If only those vegans were able to grow as people, they might just learn a thing or two about being okay with animal torture
What’s the point of living if you can’t find purpose and there’s no real truth
That there’s no objective purpose to life doesn’t mean you can’t find your own. Personally, I find purpose in enjoying my life and improving the lives of others. Doesn’t matter that there isn’t some grand design, I like what I’m doing.
But that might not matter in the end
It matters to me
But you’ll just be dust someday
We’re not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.
Why delay the inevitable
I guess there isn’t a point given to you by someone/something else, but you’re free to pick one of your own if you want. Or not. Ultimately we just have our evolved desire to survive and see our loved ones do well.
I’d rather pick what is actually true
What’s that?
That there is one Lord- Jesus of Nazareth, commonly called the Christ, who was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. On the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. He will return in glory to judge both the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
ah I see. I misunderstood - when you said “I’d rather pick what is actually true”, you meant you’d pick a story you like and call it truth. Yes that’s also an option, why not.
I’m convinced from the historical evidence that Jesus actually rose from the dead
You understand christian and catholic is also the same right?
They are not
Educated yourself
lol k
Christians worship Christ, while Catholics worship … er … Cath
eDuCaTe YoUrSelF lol
