When you have to pay for education like it is a luxury, education and opportunities become commodities accessible mostly to the wealthy, which is a form of privatization. If you want onboard, you have to sign your life away in a loan. If you get one.
Since a job is locked behind a degree, bam, you got privatization by gating. It’s technically not the job opportunities themselves being privatized, but the effect is pretty similar.

I absolutely agree on the part that a degree is wonderful in every regard. I would like to study mathematics one day, not because I want to work in that field necessarily, but because I adore the field. It’s like my mind is made for it. Not in an arrogant genius way, more like in an endorphin way. As a kid I always closed my eyes and recreated my environment with basic shapes, using them sort of like voxels, not because of some compulsion, but because it was fun.
But I don’t plan on stopping there. For me, I don’t see why I couldn’t just keep studying till the end of my days. I am sadly not healthy enough for that right now though. Hopefully I get well enough to follow that dream. Everything else is already in place.

I think one thing that often does not get said out loud is that you don’t just learn what is on the agenda, but you also learn to socialize. Like you become a tolerable and tolerating person through such processes and I think it should be talked about way more on the front of being informed from education.

First off, maybe stop acting like you run the place. With her gone, you’d more than likely have to do thrice the work you do now. Second, maybe just be a decent human being? You do not get to decide to get another person to vote. You can talk with them, shwo them things you hate in the world, things you love in the world, and then bring that over into politics. But I suppose your retarded angry brain is too stupid to think of communication as a tool to progress to a better thought.

You don’t need to remind me what the discussion was about. It was not only about getting a job without a degree, but also about the fact that you have to pay for that degree, as per the title of the post.

The next paragraph can be understood very emotionally. I mean this literally, I do not have bad feelings towards you.

You as an employer do not represent the job market, nor does me being one. Not even in our respective fields. This is irrelevant information and likely told to make yourself look more qualified than you are, which is why I’m bitching about it.
I didn’t even read your first paragraph completely; that’s how irrelevant I find this to be. I don’t need to know your field, or what the hell you do within that field.
If you had a background in this area, like analytics, it would be a different situation, but that’s not what you told me. Your statement, “I hire anybody, as long as they’re qualified,” doesn’t change the job market.

What I have typed here is completely without relevance to the discussion, such as was your attempt to highlight a supposed competency on this topic.
If your credentials are so important to you: Why don’t you talk about being a student, maybe even a lecturer, yourself?
That’s at least midly relevant, still pretentious though.

Slidin my toe back off the battleground:

I don’t know how it works in the us…

Since you live in spain, yeah, that is exactly what I said. Could I maybe dm you about spain? I feel we have certain commonalities and I have contemplated moving there and would like to ask about it.

Regarding uni, yes that is what I meant, badly phrased. I am also talking specifically about the entirety of the EU, since you are free to move and go to any university within it (for now). So it doesn’t really matter that you can’t go study as freely in spain as in germany, you can just go study in germany. Arguments could be made about accessibility, but you can still just go ahead and do that, and it’s not even terribly expensive. Yes, lectures can be very good. Attendance, more often than not, does not mean that you need to stay til the end, since you get checked at the start of the lecture.

Now, wether we agree or not. On a basis yes. You previously said that for the vast majority of jobs you need a degree. Now you were saying for about half you need a certificate. Certificate ≠ degree. A technical certificate is a type of degree, but a certificate not so necessarily. That is besides the fact that by degree, the general public means a bachelor’s degree and up. Those are two very different documents, and you can get a certificate, such which an electrician requires, in inexpensive ways, even illegally. You don’t necessarily have that choice as a law student.

I do not agree that a simple certificate creates the situation OP is trying to stay out of, which is to pay for education.
I do not agree that the number of jobs requiring a diploma, based on the job market and the skill level of a person, is the majority.

If you feel the same way, then I feel you contradict yourself linguistically, but yes we would agree.

I didn’t mean one percent literally, just a small minority. Using exact numbers figuratively is misleading, so I edited my comment shortly before your answer — probably too late. But hey, that’s the average effort of a post online, amirite?
The real number of people in regulated professions is 22% of the EU workforce. Now consider, that people like electricians are counted here, not just people with a degree. If we were to take those out, that would be even less.
Take out the rest too because of the absolute irrelevance, since in the EU education is so damn cheap, but that’s a different point altogether.

About the privatization of education: If you have to pay 10k strong monies a year to get a workable diploma, then lock every job behind a degree, that is privatization of job opportunities. This is an ongoing issue in the USA, land of the indebted.

And what exactly would those two very specific demographics qualify as being smart?

Oh, so heaven and hell are just amazon.

Nono, theres definitely and after-life.

While I don’t believe in it’s literal existence, I do not find it to be contradictory. Sure, we like different things, but that’s mostly just us being born and raised in different environments. If heaven was true, then we would learn everything we need to find it heavenly.

Also, if one believes in heaven, they likely believe in god. Being omnipotent, I don’t think he’d have an issue creating a different realm for you inside the realm of heaven.

We’re all just a weird mycelium in some bacon after all. ^{gettin hungry}

Got it.

Ok, first off, I don’t give a shit who you are or what you do, that’s not what this is about and unless your job has to do with looking at such topics in a scientific and non subjective way, which I did not read from you, your opinion matters just as much as anyone elses, just like mine.

Coming back to nicer grounds, yes, for the fields you have mentioned, that’s absolutely true. Those fields are quite critical and in my opinion should be gated by a diploma. You don’t just get to call yourself and architect and draft a building that collapses. Same with a chemist and accidentally poisoning the groundwater or being a scientist in general and wasting a lot of time and money, and so on. Also, please notice how I said I couldn’t think of any more, just genuinely low effort, was not meaning to say there weren’t.

I think that generally any job that has no immediate severe repercussions and where your employer can reasonably give you a probabtion period, you can just go ahead and do with enough knowledge. Such include (I’m only listing exotic ones, since that’s what we’re seemingly focusing on in this thread):
Technical writer
Salesperson
Consultant
Data Analyst
Project Manager

And in europe there is literally no gate to entry to lower level jobs like technical support or warehouse. Keep in mind that the vast majority of workers are not in the position to be a lawyer or a scientist.

But even with all that considered, my point still stands: The jobs you can’t do without a diploma, that’s like 1% of jobs. (Likely incorrect percentage)

Aaaand on top of that, when you’re in europe, you don’t even really have to go to uni. Sure, there are lectures you need to technically be present for, but you can just go, say you’re there, then leave. Then you have to pay like in the lower end of a few thousand bucks, which the university will even just straight up give to you if you’re poor and you can just take your exams. I don’t see nothing wrong with the exams, they’re good in any way.

What’s the problem here is the privatization of job opportunities, which for all intents and purposes doesn’t exist on this side of the lake. This is a uniquely american problem we’re talking about here.

I hIrE pEoPlE

There’s literally an entire demographic of americans that are having trouble with getting a job because they don’t have certification and it’s a nationwide problem causing insane amounts of debt for the general population, so unless there’s some kind of joke about the american healthcare system in there, then I don’t get what you’re saying.

In healthcare, yes. An IT guy, a plumber, an analyst, no. Legal and healthcare are the only two fields I can think of right now that a person with enough knowledge couldn’t enter without a diploma.
But those two fields make up what, 1 percent?

Also, I don’t need to go to europe, because I’m already there.

… in america.

Yeah, slightly charred.

*beans

And those mainframes once had my dick in it.

Well guess what. They say that cause they’re damn right.