That is a lie. Acknowledging that it’s happening is addressing it. Addressing the slaves directly and telling them to be obedient is promoting it.
The Bible does the latter.
Put those instructions in any other context: if I told the kids trafficked to Epstein’s island to give Trump the best blowjob they could, would I be addressing pedophilia or promoting it? If you were being chased by a man wielding a knife, and I told you to stop running and just let him stab you to death, would I be addressing murder, or promoting it? If I told my political representatives to keep sending bombs to Israel for them to continue turning Gaza into a crater, would I be addressing genocide, or promoting it?
Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.
Doesn’t sound like Trump/Epstein, knife wielding, or bombing gazans behaviour to me.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.
Doesn’t sound like Trump/Epstein, knife wielding, or bombing gazans behaviour to me.
Ah, right. I forgot to give the follow up instructions for Trump to give his sex slave a nice pat on the back for a good sloppy finish, the knife murderer clean your corpse up nicely for the funeral, and Israel to send some ibuprofen to the hospital they just leveled. Surely that justifies the preceding act!
It is not possible, nor has it ever been possible, for a slaver to treat a slave with respect or dignity. Making sure to feed and water them regularly and give a smiley “good morning!” every now and then isn’t going to justify keeping them as a slave. Suggesting that is does is - drumroll - promoting slavery!
the law is not laid down for the just, but for the… …enslavers,
First of, if fucking only. Legality and morality are very frequently at odds with each other, slavery being a prime example, and a great illustration of why the opener to that verse is absolute bullshit: slavery was legal. The holocaust was legal. Manifest destiny was legal. That doesn’t make any of them ‘good’.
And second, a contradiction in the Bible?! Dude those are a dime a dozen. Nice to see it called out as a negative in another section I guess, but being ambiguous about it isn’t the same as condemning it. To the contrary, I’d wager that shit is by design: if it was too overtly evil people wouldn’t follow it… gotta bake in some plausible deniability. …and even that has the cherry on top of hatred for homosexuals in the same sentence by lumping them in with murderers and slavers.
I said earlier that the Bible advocates for some evil shit - that was an understatement. It’s really good at advocating for evil shit. So good at it that the people it tricks into carrying out the evil shit think that what they’re doing is somehow moral or even benevolent. It’s got evil down to a science. There was a time when I fell into that trap too. I get it. You think you’re doing good. Take the contradictions like the one you highlighted as proof of inconsistency. And dig. There are a an absolute ton of them in scripture. If your only exposure to it are the verses your preacher is spitting at you, you are NOT getting the whole story. Read it yourself. Consider the implications on your life of each statement it makes. Consider what it’s compelling you to do to others - and I don’t mean some vague ‘love thy neighbor’ shit, but specifically how are you being taught to think about different groups of people, or whether you do things like vote against or in support of those people. …and be careful when you start to find things that make you uncomfortable or start to think critically of the religion: it’s a closed community that doesn’t respond well to dissent, so if you say the wrong thing to a religious authority figure or even family member you could find yourself in a violent situation with all of your current support networks rugpulled from beneath you. It’s fucking terrifying.
An indentured servant is not comparable to a sex slave 🤦
And I show you a bit of the Bible which condemns enslaving people after you claim it is promoting slavery because it is apparently silent on the topic, and you just say “contradiction!” Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I’ve read the Bible before I started going to Church full time. There’s nothing in it telling you who to vote for. Or to hate groups of people.
violent situation with all of your current support networks rugpulled from beneath you. It’s fucking terrifying.
My family has a mix of religious belief or lack thereof. I really doubt that would happen, considering my beliefs differ from my parents, and I have a sibling who is even a different religion.
An indentured servant is not comparable to a sex slave 🤦
You don’t think so? Feel free to elaborate on why. Of the three random atrocities I listed, sex slaves are the most comparable in my opinion. I almost didn’t even use that example because it’s too similar to a laborer slave.
And I show you a bit of the Bible which condemns enslaving people after you claim it is promoting slavery because it is apparently silent on the topic,
That is another lie. It’s clearly not silent on the topic - I never claimed it was. Please don’t put words in my mouth - they taste funny.
and you just say “contradiction!” Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Yeah, that’s how contradictions work. Ya starting to see why I’m not a huge fan of them?
I’ve read the Bible before I started going to Church full time. There’s nothing in it telling you who to vote for. Or to hate groups of people.
You literally just linked a verse instructing you to hate on homosexuals in your previous post. Did you forget? As for other groups, how do you reconcile disparities between what scripture instructs vs how the church acts? There’s a heavy red lean in christian voters despite Christ’s teachings largely boiling down to things decried as ‘woke’ today. Why is the modern culture surrounding christianity so blatantly at odds with the lore of christianity?
My family has a mix of religious belief or lack thereof. I really doubt that would happen, considering my beliefs differ from my parents, and I have a sibling who is even a different religion.
Good to hear. Having conversations like this with an internet stranger always makes me a bit nervous - I’d hate to be the catalyst for a situation that devolves into domestic violence. I don’t know the social situation of the person on the other end.
Three random atrocities you list don’t hold any bearing.
As for your claim the scripture instructs you to “hate homosexuals”
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Where does it say to hate these people? The whole context of this conversation is talking about the law and addressing pharisees.
As for other groups, how do you reconcile disparities between what scripture instructs vs how the church acts? There’s a heavy red lean in christian voters despite Christ’s teachings largely boiling down to things decried as ‘woke’ today. Why is the modern culture surrounding christianity so blatantly at odds with the lore of christianity?
Irrelevant.
“Red” to me means leftist. But I assume you’re an American and talking about the American Republican party led by Donald Trump.
Pedantry aside, there are people who identify as Christian and fail to act on it. So what? Should I- someone who believes that God literally became man and died for our salvation, reject God’s gift because Karen in Mississippi hates mexicans? By no means!
How do I feel about the current president of the United States of America? I believe he is an evil antichrist and he along with those who idolise him need to repent and turn to Jesus before it’s too late for them.
Where does it say to hate these people? The whole context of this conversation is talking about the law and addressing pharisees.
The context is a list…
the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
It drops homosexuality smack-dab in the middle of some of humanity’s absolute worst. Even ignoring the other verse that states gays should be murdered with rocks, the one you linked paints a pretty clear picture of how christians are to think of gay people.
Irrelevant.
…how? That bit was contrasting the church against the book. The church is a function of the book. You ever heard the expression “the purpose of a system is what it does”? Kinda sounds stupid at first, but this is the kind of thing it’s talking about, and the reason you see even memes saying things like “the system isn’t broken and needs to be fixed; it’s working exactly as intended and needs to be destroyed.” The evil shit committed by the church is the result of the instructions from the lore. So, hard disagree - it’s 100% relevant.
“Red” to me means leftist. But I assume you’re an American and talking about the American Republican party led by Donald Trump.
You are correct.
Pedantry
Naw that was a good distinction. We seem to be online around the same time, so I assumed you were also US, despite your instance.
Should I- someone who believes that God literally became man and died for our salvation, reject God’s gift because Karen in Mississippi hates mexicans? By no means!
Absolutely not, but back to the system spiel. I’m not talking about the occasional anomaly, I’m talking about recurring patterns, entire communities, voting patterns. Oppressive regimes have always had a cheat code to win elections, and that’s be catering to christianity (in areas where christianity is the dominating religion… we could pretty well copy and paste this entire conversation subbed for islam or w/e if you wanted). It’s the same us-vs-them shit every time. So should you- someone who believes in god, reject that mythology over the realization that it compels people to do evil things, consistently and frequently? That’s up to you. I did. I’d at least encourage you to reject the evil - by which I mean the human element, the church. Cling to the book if you must, but advancing the church isn’t doing humanity any favors.
How do I feel about the current president of the United States of America? I believe he is an evil antichrist and he along with those who idolise him need to repent and turn to Jesus before it’s too late for them.
antichrist… he certainly checks a lot of the boxes. I can say with a pretty high degree of certainty that the folks here won’t be repenting in any meaningful way. Trump is their god; Jesus is just their mascot. …I’m not convinced it isn’t already too late for us.
Promoting slavery that’s actively happening is still promoting slavery.
It’s addressing it. Not promoting it.
That is a lie. Acknowledging that it’s happening is addressing it. Addressing the slaves directly and telling them to be obedient is promoting it.
The Bible does the latter.
Put those instructions in any other context: if I told the kids trafficked to Epstein’s island to give Trump the best blowjob they could, would I be addressing pedophilia or promoting it? If you were being chased by a man wielding a knife, and I told you to stop running and just let him stab you to death, would I be addressing murder, or promoting it? If I told my political representatives to keep sending bombs to Israel for them to continue turning Gaza into a crater, would I be addressing genocide, or promoting it?
The Bible advocates for some evil shit.
Ephesians 6:9 ESV
Doesn’t sound like Trump/Epstein, knife wielding, or bombing gazans behaviour to me.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV
Ah, right. I forgot to give the follow up instructions for Trump to give his sex slave a nice pat on the back for a good sloppy finish, the knife murderer clean your corpse up nicely for the funeral, and Israel to send some ibuprofen to the hospital they just leveled. Surely that justifies the preceding act!
It is not possible, nor has it ever been possible, for a slaver to treat a slave with respect or dignity. Making sure to feed and water them regularly and give a smiley “good morning!” every now and then isn’t going to justify keeping them as a slave. Suggesting that is does is - drumroll - promoting slavery!
First of, if fucking only. Legality and morality are very frequently at odds with each other, slavery being a prime example, and a great illustration of why the opener to that verse is absolute bullshit: slavery was legal. The holocaust was legal. Manifest destiny was legal. That doesn’t make any of them ‘good’.
And second, a contradiction in the Bible?! Dude those are a dime a dozen. Nice to see it called out as a negative in another section I guess, but being ambiguous about it isn’t the same as condemning it. To the contrary, I’d wager that shit is by design: if it was too overtly evil people wouldn’t follow it… gotta bake in some plausible deniability. …and even that has the cherry on top of hatred for homosexuals in the same sentence by lumping them in with murderers and slavers.
I said earlier that the Bible advocates for some evil shit - that was an understatement. It’s really good at advocating for evil shit. So good at it that the people it tricks into carrying out the evil shit think that what they’re doing is somehow moral or even benevolent. It’s got evil down to a science. There was a time when I fell into that trap too. I get it. You think you’re doing good. Take the contradictions like the one you highlighted as proof of inconsistency. And dig. There are a an absolute ton of them in scripture. If your only exposure to it are the verses your preacher is spitting at you, you are NOT getting the whole story. Read it yourself. Consider the implications on your life of each statement it makes. Consider what it’s compelling you to do to others - and I don’t mean some vague ‘love thy neighbor’ shit, but specifically how are you being taught to think about different groups of people, or whether you do things like vote against or in support of those people. …and be careful when you start to find things that make you uncomfortable or start to think critically of the religion: it’s a closed community that doesn’t respond well to dissent, so if you say the wrong thing to a religious authority figure or even family member you could find yourself in a violent situation with all of your current support networks rugpulled from beneath you. It’s fucking terrifying.
An indentured servant is not comparable to a sex slave 🤦
And I show you a bit of the Bible which condemns enslaving people after you claim it is promoting slavery because it is apparently silent on the topic, and you just say “contradiction!” Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I’ve read the Bible before I started going to Church full time. There’s nothing in it telling you who to vote for. Or to hate groups of people.
My family has a mix of religious belief or lack thereof. I really doubt that would happen, considering my beliefs differ from my parents, and I have a sibling who is even a different religion.
You don’t think so? Feel free to elaborate on why. Of the three random atrocities I listed, sex slaves are the most comparable in my opinion. I almost didn’t even use that example because it’s too similar to a laborer slave.
That is another lie. It’s clearly not silent on the topic - I never claimed it was. Please don’t put words in my mouth - they taste funny.
Yeah, that’s how contradictions work. Ya starting to see why I’m not a huge fan of them?
You literally just linked a verse instructing you to hate on homosexuals in your previous post. Did you forget? As for other groups, how do you reconcile disparities between what scripture instructs vs how the church acts? There’s a heavy red lean in christian voters despite Christ’s teachings largely boiling down to things decried as ‘woke’ today. Why is the modern culture surrounding christianity so blatantly at odds with the lore of christianity?
Good to hear. Having conversations like this with an internet stranger always makes me a bit nervous - I’d hate to be the catalyst for a situation that devolves into domestic violence. I don’t know the social situation of the person on the other end.
Three random atrocities you list don’t hold any bearing.
As for your claim the scripture instructs you to “hate homosexuals”
Where does it say to hate these people? The whole context of this conversation is talking about the law and addressing pharisees.
Irrelevant.
“Red” to me means leftist. But I assume you’re an American and talking about the American Republican party led by Donald Trump.
Pedantry aside, there are people who identify as Christian and fail to act on it. So what? Should I- someone who believes that God literally became man and died for our salvation, reject God’s gift because Karen in Mississippi hates mexicans? By no means!
How do I feel about the current president of the United States of America? I believe he is an evil antichrist and he along with those who idolise him need to repent and turn to Jesus before it’s too late for them.
The context is a list…
the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
It drops homosexuality smack-dab in the middle of some of humanity’s absolute worst. Even ignoring the other verse that states gays should be murdered with rocks, the one you linked paints a pretty clear picture of how christians are to think of gay people.
…how? That bit was contrasting the church against the book. The church is a function of the book. You ever heard the expression “the purpose of a system is what it does”? Kinda sounds stupid at first, but this is the kind of thing it’s talking about, and the reason you see even memes saying things like “the system isn’t broken and needs to be fixed; it’s working exactly as intended and needs to be destroyed.” The evil shit committed by the church is the result of the instructions from the lore. So, hard disagree - it’s 100% relevant.
You are correct.
Naw that was a good distinction. We seem to be online around the same time, so I assumed you were also US, despite your instance.
Absolutely not, but back to the system spiel. I’m not talking about the occasional anomaly, I’m talking about recurring patterns, entire communities, voting patterns. Oppressive regimes have always had a cheat code to win elections, and that’s be catering to christianity (in areas where christianity is the dominating religion… we could pretty well copy and paste this entire conversation subbed for islam or w/e if you wanted). It’s the same us-vs-them shit every time. So should you- someone who believes in god, reject that mythology over the realization that it compels people to do evil things, consistently and frequently? That’s up to you. I did. I’d at least encourage you to reject the evil - by which I mean the human element, the church. Cling to the book if you must, but advancing the church isn’t doing humanity any favors.
antichrist… he certainly checks a lot of the boxes. I can say with a pretty high degree of certainty that the folks here won’t be repenting in any meaningful way. Trump is their god; Jesus is just their mascot. …I’m not convinced it isn’t already too late for us.