Oil companies are evil. Sure. They lobby for everything they can get to benefit their business, and often get it. They lie about the dangers of climate change.
BUT
They didn’t cause the climate to change single-handedly. Oil companies are pumping out vast quantities of oil because people insist on buying and driving cars. People insist on taking vacations involving flying to a beach or a mountain. Even people who “love nature” will go on a camping trip that involves driving hours in a huge metal box so that they can spend some time in nature.
Sure, it’s hard to get by without a car, especially in North America. And you can definitely blame oil industry lobbyists for making cities more car-centric. At the same time, look how much of a stink suburbanites raise any time a city wants to get rid of some car lanes to put in a bike lane. Look at the fury when cities introduce congestion pricing.
tl;dr: this bitch probably drove her car to get to the building where she launched the rocket.
They lobby for everything they can get to benefit their business, and often get it.
A lot of citizens want a better alternative but can’t get it because Oil industry has corrupted our officials.
They lie about the dangers of climate change.
This and their lobbying makes it so that many citizens didn’t (and still don’t) know what kind of problem they are part of. Oil lobbies corrupted scientists, media and politicians so the uneducated and the not-so-uneducated thought that climate change was not real. Many of them now have realized their lies and we are all in our 100% legitimate right to blame them and fight them.
The reason so many suburbanites complain about bike lanes it’s because oil companies pay and spread propaganda that has convinced them that it will affect their lives negatively.
A lot of people have to buy that metal box because there is no reasonable alternative, when your politicians, bought by oil lobbies, don’t invest or even work against public transportation.
And then there’s people like you that, when people try to do better, criticize them because they have a infinitesimal part of the guilt.
Just because they lobby for things doesn’t mean that people no longer have any choices.
The corn lobby lobbies for, and gets, all kinds of subsidies. That doesn’t mean you’re required to eat corn.
that has convinced them that it will affect their lives negatively.
Boohoo. They believed the propaganda, it’s not their fault!
A lot of people have to buy that metal box because there is no reasonable alternative
Because their definition of “reasonable” is too narrow. It’s slightly less convenient, therefore unreasonable.
And then there’s people like you that, when people try to do better, criticize them because they have a infinitesimal part of the guilt.
When have I criticized anyone for trying to do better. What I criticize is people trying to feel less guilty about their selfish decisions by trying to heap all the blame on oil companies instead, like you do.
oil industry lobbyists … making cities more car-centric
I hear you when you say
look how much of a stink suburbanites raise any time a city wants to get rid of some car lanes to put in a bike lane. Look at the fury when cities introduce congestion pricing
However, it’s important to understand that those people are absolute donuts, and their complaints should not be taken seriously or reflect on the rest of us.
No, people’s lifestyles are to blame. Oil companies meet the demand. They partially shape people’s behaviour, but people still have choices, and most westerners choose to destroy the environment and blame the oil companies.
If I’ve missed your point, it’s because you haven’t made it very clear. It’s obvious I read your comment, my reply to it was almost entirely quotes from it.
I think you’re intentionally misreading it because it was pretty obvious:
Sure, oil companies use lobbying which influences people and policy. But, ultimately people make their own choices and most of the time they choose the convenient option which destroys the planet. But, they get to blame the oil company, not their own decisions.
Private jets are awful, but luckily only a tiny number of people actually use them. Meanwhile hundreds of millions drive cars and tens of millions fly in planes every day.
Yes, as were consumers, as were lawmakers, as were courts. All of society is to blame, and society can’t just shift the blame to corporations and say “well, it’s not my fault, it’s his”.
Oh but we can. And we will. Corporations take the shortest path, disregarding anything that can cost money, including being environmentally friendly, with the excuse of “but we’re running a business here, we serve people”. No shit sherlock. Make corporations accountable for what they do, and you’ll fix a large part of the problem. When the saving projected by the population of whole countries can barely scratch the damages done by a handful of business, it is everyone’s responsibility to hold these business accountable.
Transportation is like 10-15% of global greenhouse emissions. So why are you blaming individuals driving and flying when it’s industry and fossil fuel companies that, by the numbers, should carry the lion’s share of the blame?
How much of that transportation is just fossil fuel companies driving things around in circles just for fun, and how much of it is delivering things that people ordered?
Again, it comes down to personal choices. The emissions wouldn’t be there if people weren’t buying things.
I think you missed my point. It’s not that individuals driving single-occupancy, gas-guzzling vehicles are blameless when it comes to climate change. Instead, it’s that the fossil fuel industry—with their years of lying, lobbying, and propaganda—should get the vast majority of the blame, along with other industries reliant on fossil fuel and greenhouse emissions. We’re taking our eye off the ball if we’re not directing most of our ire at them.
People should get the vast majority of the blame. Oil companies lobby and spew propaganda, but people choose cars because they’re comfy and more convenient than mass transit or biking.
We’re absolving ourselves of our own agency if we’re directing our ire at them instead of our own lifestyles.
I think if people stopped using cars, travelling by plane, and ordering stuff from far away, the oil industry would collapse because it wouldn’t have customers.
I can’t grow enough food in the summer to feed myself year round so i buy groceries at the store and support the gas guzzling supply chain. Guess it’s my fault. I’m sorry y’all.
The grocery store supply chain might actually emit less CO2 than your own small home garden (assuming you drive to the store to buy seeds, etc). There’s a lot of efficiencies at scale. You could also buy at local farmer’s markets if you think that’s going to reduce emissions. But, I’m not convinced that’s going to reduce things overall.
The point is, you can’t just blame companies without acknowledging your own role in this situation.
Oil companies are evil. Sure. They lobby for everything they can get to benefit their business, and often get it. They lie about the dangers of climate change.
BUT
They didn’t cause the climate to change single-handedly. Oil companies are pumping out vast quantities of oil because people insist on buying and driving cars. People insist on taking vacations involving flying to a beach or a mountain. Even people who “love nature” will go on a camping trip that involves driving hours in a huge metal box so that they can spend some time in nature.
Sure, it’s hard to get by without a car, especially in North America. And you can definitely blame oil industry lobbyists for making cities more car-centric. At the same time, look how much of a stink suburbanites raise any time a city wants to get rid of some car lanes to put in a bike lane. Look at the fury when cities introduce congestion pricing.
tl;dr: this bitch probably drove her car to get to the building where she launched the rocket.
You said it yourself
The reason so many suburbanites complain about bike lanes it’s because oil companies pay and spread propaganda that has convinced them that it will affect their lives negatively.
A lot of people have to buy that metal box because there is no reasonable alternative, when your politicians, bought by oil lobbies, don’t invest or even work against public transportation.
And then there’s people like you that, when people try to do better, criticize them because they have a infinitesimal part of the guilt.
Just because they lobby for things doesn’t mean that people no longer have any choices.
The corn lobby lobbies for, and gets, all kinds of subsidies. That doesn’t mean you’re required to eat corn.
Boohoo. They believed the propaganda, it’s not their fault!
Because their definition of “reasonable” is too narrow. It’s slightly less convenient, therefore unreasonable.
When have I criticized anyone for trying to do better. What I criticize is people trying to feel less guilty about their selfish decisions by trying to heap all the blame on oil companies instead, like you do.
Ok but
because of
I hear you when you say
However, it’s important to understand that those people are absolute donuts, and their complaints should not be taken seriously or reflect on the rest of us.
I just think that “the rest of us” includes a lot of people who drive daily, but still like to blame oil companies.
We blame oil companies because, as you yourself said (see my previous comment where I quoted you), the oil companies are to blame.
No, people’s lifestyles are to blame. Oil companies meet the demand. They partially shape people’s behaviour, but people still have choices, and most westerners choose to destroy the environment and blame the oil companies.
Ok so I’m confused, were you just lying when you said oil companies are to blame?
No, I meant what I said, go re-read it again, you seem to have missed the point.
If I’ve missed your point, it’s because you haven’t made it very clear. It’s obvious I read your comment, my reply to it was almost entirely quotes from it.
I think you’re intentionally misreading it because it was pretty obvious:
Sure, oil companies use lobbying which influences people and policy. But, ultimately people make their own choices and most of the time they choose the convenient option which destroys the planet. But, they get to blame the oil company, not their own decisions.
Never mind private jets, which if I recall correctly, are more damaging and easier to take away (in theory)…
Private jets are awful, but luckily only a tiny number of people actually use them. Meanwhile hundreds of millions drive cars and tens of millions fly in planes every day.
All I hear is they were part of the problem.
Yes, as were consumers, as were lawmakers, as were courts. All of society is to blame, and society can’t just shift the blame to corporations and say “well, it’s not my fault, it’s his”.
Oh but we can. And we will. Corporations take the shortest path, disregarding anything that can cost money, including being environmentally friendly, with the excuse of “but we’re running a business here, we serve people”. No shit sherlock. Make corporations accountable for what they do, and you’ll fix a large part of the problem. When the saving projected by the population of whole countries can barely scratch the damages done by a handful of business, it is everyone’s responsibility to hold these business accountable.
Transportation is like 10-15% of global greenhouse emissions. So why are you blaming individuals driving and flying when it’s industry and fossil fuel companies that, by the numbers, should carry the lion’s share of the blame?
How much of that transportation is just fossil fuel companies driving things around in circles just for fun, and how much of it is delivering things that people ordered?
Again, it comes down to personal choices. The emissions wouldn’t be there if people weren’t buying things.
I think you missed my point. It’s not that individuals driving single-occupancy, gas-guzzling vehicles are blameless when it comes to climate change. Instead, it’s that the fossil fuel industry—with their years of lying, lobbying, and propaganda—should get the vast majority of the blame, along with other industries reliant on fossil fuel and greenhouse emissions. We’re taking our eye off the ball if we’re not directing most of our ire at them.
People should get the vast majority of the blame. Oil companies lobby and spew propaganda, but people choose cars because they’re comfy and more convenient than mass transit or biking.
We’re absolving ourselves of our own agency if we’re directing our ire at them instead of our own lifestyles.
If you think you can save the planet by letting the oil industry off the hook, you’re fooling yourself.
I think if people stopped using cars, travelling by plane, and ordering stuff from far away, the oil industry would collapse because it wouldn’t have customers.
I can’t grow enough food in the summer to feed myself year round so i buy groceries at the store and support the gas guzzling supply chain. Guess it’s my fault. I’m sorry y’all.
The grocery store supply chain might actually emit less CO2 than your own small home garden (assuming you drive to the store to buy seeds, etc). There’s a lot of efficiencies at scale. You could also buy at local farmer’s markets if you think that’s going to reduce emissions. But, I’m not convinced that’s going to reduce things overall.
The point is, you can’t just blame companies without acknowledging your own role in this situation.