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Fuck no we shouldn’t. This is their fucking fault!
None of us wanted this! They’ve been shoving it down our throats for months, cutting budgets, and redirecting it to AI, all while smugly reminding us that “this is the future, they’re the experts, and any oppositions to what they’re doing in 2025 would be like opposing the internet circa 1996.”
This is the fucking result of allowing the “technocratic elite” to come in and tell countless departments and agencies full of “educated bureaucrats” to just sit back, shut up, and watch how it’s done.
The AI bubble is the fucking Dunning Kruger effect in action. Just because some pompous dumbass buys a bunch of planes, and thinks that makes him an expert on planes, and he is then able to convince a bunch of other stupid people he should be allowed to fly a plane, it doesn’t mean he actually knows how to fly the fucking plane.
We already made the mistake of allowing him to take over for the pilot and he immediately crashed our plane. Does rewarding him for crashing our plane, and telling him to just brush himself off and hop back in the captain’s chair seem like the brightest fucking idea?! 💡
But, muh share prices
-Rich assholes
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When did the public’s opinion matter to the government?
Well, eventually the government needs the public to implement policy. For all the talk of the miracles of AI, you can’t just shout orders at ChatGPT from the Oval Office and have them become real by magic.
The problem at hand is that some people have rejected these ultra-wealthy racist buffoons in their quest to automate every white collar job. Other people are hopping on the ICE gravy train or getting their beaks wet on the ballooning crypto/tech secondary markets or otherwise profiteering off the back end of the conservative criminal enterprise. And these are the folks with all the institutional authority, the administrative offices, and the loyal trained footsoldiers carrying around the guns.
Cops seem to get along with AI devices just fine. It does the unfun parts of their jobs for them and offers more free time to go around town in a monster truck, ramming people, roughing them up, and filing them into concentration camps. As more and more of the US labor force is told “The only viable path to the middle class is through the police”, you’re going to see Americans prodded into the police state (or its many subsidiaries and offshoots) as a matter of economic necessity.
Eventually, if its a choice between being on the inside of the fence or the outside of the fence, who wouldn’t pick being Winston Smith over some homeless peer who gets beaten to death on the street?
…so when we ‘hire’ politicians, they are supposed to work in our best inerest, only a few representatives seem to do this and they are all Democrats…
they are all Democrats…
More accurately, Social Democrats and other progressives. Establishment Democrats are corporate-owned bootlickers that act against their constituents’ interests in favor of their donors, much like Republicans but without the blatant -isms and -phobias.
…i agree whole-heartedly…the people who should be in charge don’t want to be and the people who want to be in charge shouldn’t…
It’s W.B. Yeats’ Second Coming all over again.
I disagree with this statement.
the people who should be in charge don’t want to be
What? That is utter nonsense.
It’s not. Power attracts people who want to abuse it. The people most suited for being an actual good leader, aren’t seeking it out.
I think that’s overly simplistic. Power does attract people who want to abuse it, but it also attracts people who want to change their world for the better.
The latter group view power more as a weighty responsibility than a privilege, but the power still exists.
Although that latter group is also more likely to spread their power around, thus reducing the opportunities for abuse by the former group, and… I kind of see your point. But I view it a bit more systemically.
Many politicians have stated that they got into the game to make a difference but all the back room deals, concessions and quid pro quo needed to get into a position of power meant they had their hands tied once they were in power.
I think a lot of the people who want to make a difference look at the quagmire that is modern politics and decide they can do more from elsewhere in the community. People who are willing to wade into that tar pit and aren’t interested in the power or the extra money that can be made on the side are few and far between.
I’ve heard much the same thing from the world of biz. People think the CEO is the ultimate dictator in the corpo world, but you don’t get to that position without being useful to the upper classes and financial automations. The moment you start going out of sync with those forces is the moment you will feel you “power” rapidly decreasing.
It’s only the power to enunciate the will of capital. Never to act against it.
You ae bad at reading.
No.
There are countless people worthy of such positions and they fight every day to get in.
To say they don’t want to is to frame it as the left is lazy, when the reality is that the leftists are fucked over by the capitalists.
Social democrats isn’t a party (at least, not one they’re members of). It’s an idiology. They are elected as members of the Democratic party. You’re right, but I’m just pointing out that they are Democrats, along with being social democrats (no capital letters), progressives, or whatever else.
Every Dem candidate is pretty close to Jimmy Carter on the issues.
The GOP keeps moving further to the Right.
Letting the GOP win anything doesn’t do anyone any good, ever.
Democrats on the left of their party.
Quick recap of the political landscape for the past few decades
- The right will make the world worse for everyone except about 100 people
- The center will try to keep it the same, and often make it worse in general as the status quo has been built by the right
- The left will actually try to make it better, but sometimes fail
This has always been the choice since Thatcher/Reagan and the right had their last ever economic idea in neoliberalism.
A few more decades of majority centre/right wing rule and 99.99% of us will have nothing and that 100 will have it all. They know this and that’s why they fund racists to paint an alternative reason everything is going to shit. They can happily carry on with their accumulation of everything and hopefully enough people won’t realise before it’s too late to do anything.
The few left wing voices you can hear are your only voices that have managed to resist being bought.
(Oh important reminder, don’t let a politician tell you what their political alignment is, look at how they vote and behave. The further right you go the more often you’ll get an untrue response to the question)
The right will make the world worse for everyone except about 100 people
I mean, your eventuality of about 100 people owning it all is correct, but for now there’s at least a few thousand that the right is making money for.
When the bubble bursts there won’t be enough money to bail them out.
Basically it is what Ayn Rand and Thatcher said that ‘problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people’s money’. Under socialism this doesnt happen due to how cheap most social programs actually compared to corporate bailouts… where you absolutely CAN run out of other people’s money.
Hell a lot of the social programs being slashed and burned actually saved us all money. CDC used to be measured in terms of "for every 9¢ spent, we can save $1 in costs, plus all the associated suffering, really just a bonus on our incredibly good return. Now, the CDC is promoting miasma theory. Look for next year’s flu shots to be a bag of herbs you wear around your neck.
You know what your problem is? You are using logic and rationality and simple math (I learned accounting in college).
The problem is, they dont care. The whole point is that they want control and them to be miserable. Even if you provided irrefutable proof of it, they will spend ten times more on repression than the pittance that is needed to end world hunger and poverty. It is about them feeling they are ‘better’ than their underlings through being a bully than actually solving problems.
The rich don’t like her already anyway
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…But they probably will anyway, right?
Damn dude, what’s it gonna take for Americans to cut their losses and actually revolt? Painful to watch at this point.
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realistically…murdochs propaganda arm needs chopped off, that’s the biggest reason for this shift over the last 30+ years.
What, in your mind, does said revolt look like?
9 missed meals is the answer you are looking for. People still have something to lose, so they we continue to go to work.
Spoiler alert: they will literally take food from the hands of a starving child and give it to Altman, Zuckerberg and Musk.
They already did it. They will do it again.
Obama gave a colossal welfare check to corporations in his first term and the right hated it.
Trump does it in both terms and they applaud it with tears in their eyes and cum in their pants.
Republicans should hardly be considered human beings at this point.
At this point? I’d go back way farther. Probably whenever the remnants of the Dixiecrats moved into their ranks.
Obama gave a colossal welfare check to corporations in his first term and the right hated it.
Trump does it in both terms and they applaud it with tears in their eyes and cum in their pants.
This is starting to sound like what would happen in the early meetings of the Estates General just before the French had their Revolution
Time to bring back this classic.
That’s TERRORISM According to NSPM-7!
What’s that
It labels anyone who displays “anti-American, anti-capitalist, and anti-Christian” sentiments, as potential terrorists.
I’d argue that bailouts are anti-capitalists. but capitalism and corruption are the same thing
Anti-capitalism-in-theory, but pro capitalism-in-practice.
That’s specifically crony capitalism. Which is a bastardization if the system where the government is picking favorites, usually through bribery, so really corporations using the government to give themselves an advantage over their competition.
It’s explicitly not free market
Pretty much what I said. Capitalism in practice.
Capitalism puts the power over production in the hands of capital (by definition). So over time, wealth and political clout grow, and they start using that to bend government to their will. It’s not a bastardization, it’s 100% of the historical examples. A free market would require highly distributed power, not concentrated.
the problem with “free market” is they they can’t exist. as it gives power to those who gain from corrupting the system. it will always deteriorate to crony capitalism as soon as free markets exists.
Even while people are getting snap and healthcare these companies should be left to fail
No you see in capitalism, the entire system is perfect and must not be interfered with in any way, except that companies are delicate, precious things that must be saved at the expense of all else.
who says the entire captialist system is perfect? This is an example of government overreach and would be far worse under other eco frameworks.
They’re already being bailed out via subsidies. They don’t need to fail first. They’re being set up to never fail, because the treasure trove of information and surveillance opportunities are simply too good to pass up.
Ok, but don’t look at it like “free money”, they bought the politicians fair and square, it’s basically their monies at this point, the taxpayers are just being unfair.
Also, without the megacorps, who is gonna spy on you & monetise your work for themselves? The CIA like in the ancient times of 20 years ago?
100% correct, but the Americans will eat the shit bailout (corporate socialism) sandwich…again.
how does bailing out corporations ensure the workers own the means of production? stop using bastardized definitions you were taught in conservative schools
Without any choice in the matter as always.
But of course they will bail them out… there is a 0% chance they won’t be bailed out
In some countries, people make a big enough stink to actually send people to jail rather than write them a cheque.
It can happen.
but that’s not the Murica way
It could be! You were once the great hope for democracy and working people everywhere, until you were captured and contained by the aristocracy. You could be that hope again.
hmmm that was mostly the successful years of the PR campaign from Murica…
Yeah it was never really real, except as a dream. But real people did actually come the murica to try to dream it together. It’s just the money men got there first.
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Damn, I want to know what this said…
If they don’t bail them out then think of all the jobs that will be lost when AI comes to fruition – I mean the jobs that will be lost if they don’t get their government money.
Exactly. AOC can talk all she wants but Democrats Always Chicken Out.
DACO
LOL. 9 downvotes…how did that lockdown work out?
The fun thing about politicians saying things we like is that it’s much easier to do so when you know exactly how all of this is going to turn out.
Words don’t accomplish anything. Call me when the Democrats refuse to vote for the bailout and it fails instead.
We have to reach across the aiiiiiisle…
Can the government even afford to bail out the AI bubble? There’s so much “money” tied up in it I don’t think they could even print enough could they?
This bubble exists on paper, it’s basically fake money that’s been built up from companies sending IOUs to each other. It’s insane to think we should bailout fake wealth they built of market speculation. When this does pop, it’s not like the housing market where there is a ton of assets that exist. There’s nothing there.
That’s not entirely accurate. OpenAI is making deals to have chips produced, to have a data centers built, etc. Those are real things that someone has to pay for. Real debts. Their promises, in return, are just IOUs essentially, but real material debts are occurring.
OpenAI failing when the pop happens would mean nothing at all in itself. They don’t produce anything unique of value. But their failure to make good on their IOUs to other companies that went into deep debts on their assumption of repayment, companies that make up a massively bloated chunk of the markets and national GDP, and companies that are producing American technology in direct competiton with China, that could have a disastrous effect on the economy and geopolitical affairs. That is, I think, what they are counting on.
Both OpenAI and the companies taking IOUs that they have no reasonable expectation to be made good on are just banking on the US goverment to pay out when the time comes. OpenAI isn’t necessary to save at all, but its deals might be to prevent this coming crash. And if the government pays those debts, OpenAI survives and still gets to keep all of its stuff it bought on IOUs, free of charge, and the other companies got paid despite making a deal with a massively non-profitable company. They think that is a win-win. I think they need to be charged with tax fraud and let the companies fail. But… that’s not going to happen under Trump.
Great explanation!
Made me finally realize that the US tendency to always bail out “too big to fail” is a huge mechanism enabling the outrageous speculative silliness in the first place, cuz there’s not enough risk applying downward pressure on price.
This is probably obvious to folks, lol, but it wasn’t to me. Net result is just that there’s more logic behind absurdly high stock valuations (and not just limited to AI ones) than I previously understood.
the US’s financial markets are left purposefully unregulated to facilitate “liquidity”, read…taking $ from the world’s gamblers. With the way MM’s are setup and largely unmonitored…this means the US’s stocks are purposefully ran up in proce specifically to drop them hard, to trigger emotional reaction-selling from those that don’t know any better.
that plus a couple key differences in how option contracts work vs most other markets means the whole thing acts as one big fucking casino. all of this is by design, because the people running the US (big business) want regular cycles of boom and bust to take advantage of the working/(non-existent now) middle class.
But their failure to make good on their IOUs to other companies that went into deep debts on their assumption of repayment,
Which companies have gone into massive debt in order to produce goods for Open AI? As far as I know the biggest supplier to Open AI is Nvidia and Nvidia is spewing cash machine. There are some small data center companies that they have made contracts with but those aren’t big enough to bring down banks the way housing bubble threatened to.
the majority of nvda’s revenue is hardware sold on bnpl schemes…if those ai companies dont turn a profit, which they can’t without spreading IOU’s around as fake revenue…the whole thing falls apart.
They’ve made 10s to 100s of billion dollar deals each to Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Oracle for cloud compute that will require expansion of data centers to meet that demand, and similar deals to Nvidia, and AMD for chips. There are many more companies, smaller companies, too.
I know that these bets on OpenAI are not quite as risky as they seem for some of these companies. Many have been sitting on liquid cash for years without any real investments in R&D or tech advancement until this AI bubble, so they can actually withstand some amount of loss and not feel anything themselves. However, A) That is not univerally true. Some companies are over extending and likely counting on a bailout when openAI fails to pay them back. B) That doesn’t mean that they won’t all go crawling to Trump to save them from these inevitable losses. And he’ll almost certainly do it. And C) Even if they can financially withstand OpenAI defaulting on their deals, that doesn’t mean that their bloated market caps won’t tank once the idea of some magic money printing AGI tech dies. If allowed to happen, the markets will tank, investors will collectively lose trillions, people will lose jobs, and the US will lose ground in the global markets and the AI tech race, which the Trump administration will likely not allow.
Just those companies listed make up around 3% of the actual US GDP, and their combined market cap is actually more than 50% of the US GDP due in part to this AI bubble. And so many other companies are directly reliant on at least one, if not many of these companies, for cloud computing, for hardware, or as vendors for them, that their losses can ripple out way further than just those companies.
If and when this bubble bursts, there is no way that it doesn’t cause a market crash, and there is no way that the US government, under Trump (and honestly probably under most in Washington, even Dems, even if Trump weren’t in office) will not act to decrease the severity of it for these corporate and market investors by throwing tax payer dollars at it.
Let me just correct one thing here - market cap is NOT the same as GDP. One measures valuation of a company while GDP measures OUTPUT of an economy which includes output of a company. US GDP does NOT measure the MARKET VALUE of the US as a whole. Yes the market caps of the big companies are ridiculous. Of the magnificant seven all of which are HUGELY PROFITABLE, only one is wholly dependent on AI bubble. When their valuation crashes, it’s not going to stop the world economy. They will still keep making chips like they used to. Because we still need chips post bubble yes? Yes.
Let me just correct one thing here - market cap is NOT the same as GDP.
I didnt say that it was. I listed both their actual contribution to the GDP and their market cap and the relative value compared to the GDP to point out how massively bloated the market cap is.
When their valuation crashes, it’s not going to stop the world economy. They will still keep making chips like they used to. Because we still need chips post bubble yes? Yes.
I also didnt say that the companies would cease to exist or to function post crash. Most, if not all, would continue on without a ton of outward change. That doesn’t mean the crash will not have a stupid wide ripple of negatives on any number of industries not directly related to AI.
If a company like Microsoft overextends into AI and sees nothing for it, when the bubble pops, we’ll still have Microsoft. They’ll still make, sell and support Azure, and Bing, and Windows, and all their other products. But if their bet doesn’t pay off, they’ll have to rebudget, reorganize and likely end up laying off hundreds or thousands that were expected to be used and paid for from the AI work that is no longer coming. They may reduce orders with or cut ties with Vendors they were expecting to need things from to serve their AI work. They may close offices making businesses that depended on those employees for revenue see sudden drops in customers. Big sudden market shifts WILL have a lot of negative effects and chaos come with them. It is inevitable.
Also, I didnt say that their loss will crash the world economy. I dont think it will. It might not even have that big of an effect on the US economy. I’m actually in favor of letting them take their losses.
But the Trump Administration will not let that happen because they are prioritizing competition with China above everything, with AI being a particularly major area for that competition right now. They’ll bail them out to prevent this crash, and to make sure the US remains competitive in the race against China. I think the companies involved know this, and that’s why they are taking these IOUs from a non-profitable company with not substantial plans for a revenue stream that will come even close to what they would need to pay off these debts. I think they are all counting on Trump’s administration as a guarantor on these debts, and are expecting their money to come from the American tax payer. I say fuck them. Let them take their losses, tank the US economy if it does, and the ones that are responsible can be charged with tax fraud among other crimes, I’m sure. To do otherwise is to guarantee it will happen again and again. But Trump won’t do that.
Yeah, just recently one of the deals was something like the hardware providers giving AI companies enough money so they could turn around and spend that money on the hardware providers stuff…
And the hardware providers got a lot of that money from their stock valuation which increased from the last deal they made with the last AI company. And this deal raises the valuation to fund the next deal.
All of these datacenters and the semiconductors inside them are like the housing supply in 2008, assets that exist on paper whose construction was funded by the speculation of future returns of the AI companies, who have yet to turn a profit or come up with any useful revenue generating venture out of their glorified chatbots.
Its only a matter of time before the AI companies run out of investor money without having a source of revenue and profit generation to pay for all this infrastructure, and that’s when the bubble pops. However I think we will be waiting for a very long time for that to happen, since the funding ultimately comes from tech companies who have stashed away probably a combined trillion dollars in cash over the last decade. The problem is, that pulls in more than just Nvidia and openAI; by market cap we’re talking about a handful of tech giants that make up like 40% of the S&P500.
Can I get a bailout for that time I tried stonk gambling too? By my calculation that few thousand is worth a few trillion by now.
At least a tiny bailout for you should be allowed right? I mean you’re to much of an asset to the work force to have a loss like that.
They can, but remember Zimbabwe used to have a 100 trillion dollar note.
They can always create as many USD as they like, they don’t have to actually print any of it. It will devalue the dollar though, the price is inflation which affects everyonr who has dollars or is paid in dollars.
Similar story with the national debt, with enough inflation the total value of the debt becomes miniscules, you just screw over everyone who owns that debt (a lot of 401ks) and destroy your economic credibility.
Just print more /s
But they’ll go ahead and do it anyway while she “SLAMS”, them publicly.
It’s like these slams don’t even mean anything anymore
If the common person was literate and picked up a thesaurus once in a while, maybe headlines would have a larger vocabulary. 🤷♂️
AOC got props from me after calling AWS’s bullshit. They still built in NY without the city’s funds.
