Has the system finally cracked? Have the wealthy and powerful simply taken so much leaving the rest of us grasping at our very survival, easily manipulated into turning against other groups and even each other in an attempt to make sense of it all? Is society destined to destroy itself or descend into eternal servitude to our masters? How do we get out of this spiral of madness?
We’ve been in this situation before. People lose their heads over it.
Can I recommend watching Vlad Vexler (u-tube). Vlad talks about the deterioration of democratic institutions with a larger historical context.
Vlad’s interpretation of the current US situation is that it is a minor crisis for which there are still chances. He expects a real crisis over the next 10 years, when an authoritarian arrives who isn’t a moron.
There are problems, and risks - but still hope.
Google “The French Revolution”
Society has gotten far, far more unequal and oppressive before without the system being threatened.
Reinterpreting this as “is there still hope for humanity”, it’s more complicated. Big history is kind of a wide-open mystery. It’s possible we’ve already won, already lost, or have any odds of getting a good ending in between.
Society has gotten far, far more unequal and oppressive
By what metrics?
Historically there simply wasn’t physical things with which to have the modern level of inequality. Historically the average lower end was was lower, but the modern high end is incomprehensible orders of magnitude higher.
Historical acts of oppression were often far more brutal and cruel but that’s because it wasn’t physically possible to maintain the constant, but relatively minor oppression that is characteristic of modernity.
I guarantee you that it will not descend into eternal servitude. People die, environments collapse, wars happen, empires fall. Although this may sound negative, go read the history books and see how much horrible shit has happened in the course of human existence. All of that should show you that progress doesn’t … progress … linearly. Things change, things get worse, things get better, dictators die, that’s all part of human life.
Of course there could be remarkably bad times, particularly if we face nuclear war or extended effects related to extreme climate change. Those are not cyclical in any way shape or form. But many other horrible things that you’re seeing right now in the united States, for example, similar bad shit has happened before. That doesn’t mean the country is going to recover in 5 years or even in 50 years, or that it won’t, but it’s not the first time this kind of happening has occurred in history, and it certainly won’t be the last.
History repeats itself but accelerated and amplified?
It’s been understated if anything for the past few decades.
I find it odd that there are a loud and large number of people who decry communism and socialism as failed theories – pointing to the ruins of various countries that have unsuccessfully implemented them – while pointedly ignoring the fact that capitalism is falling into the same problems: the ruling class (ie, ultra-rich) takes all, and the working class suffers from a rapidly widening wealth gap.
However, when you know that the media is owned by only a handful of billionaires to benefit from the system as it is, it starts making a lot more sense.
This happens every once in a while in history. The wealthy grow very wealthy and the poor realize they’re being used and chop off a few heads or descend into lots of wars or whatever and then the cycle starts again. Don’t worry it’s not the end of humanity itself but it very often signals the end of an empire.
See: the feudal ages/french revolution or the end of the roman empire
That’s not at all how Rome ended, though.
As far as I know, the only purely domestic peasant’s uprisings that succeeded were the French and Russian ones. They’re actually kind of exceptional events. Usually, it’s struggles between different factions of elites (like with the slow balkanisation of Rome).
Edit: Haiti was a slave revolt, but I should probably include it.
Hm that’s true. Rome had a lot going on towards the end and I can’t pretend to be an expert, but certainly the elite’s greed led to a financial crisis, and what I would consider to be a grave dehumanization of poor citizens (and the ongoing reliance on slaves) played a role. It didn’t end the same way with a revolution, but the factors that led to its fall were all quite similar.
Rome didn’t treat it’s lower classes and actual slaves very well from the start, though. Nor did the rulers before them or the feudal splinter states after them. I’ve had an actual historian of Rome tell me point blank nobody has any idea why it started to decline. Historically, scholars have pointed at too much generosity with the privileges of citizenship and senatorial appointments of those from humble backgrounds.
I think it’s fair to say that usually the peasants know they’re being screwed. Very rarely, the aristocracy has been complacent enough it develops into an actual movement, but before the French revolution it always ends like the English peasant’s revolt: it’s crushed, and everything goes back to normal. It’s kind of weird it’s worked better since then, really.
(There was also more than one financial crisis in the Rome, but that’s neither here nor there)
The 2 signs that jump out at me:
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Rising rates of “deaths of despair”
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Watching birthrates fall into the abyss, all across the world. People seeing the future in store and opting out.
Birthrates are falling because education and wealth are rising. Both trends strongly correlate with smaller families. Besides, most don’t need 10 kids to work the farm any longer.
I also wonder if a bit of the “no kids” thing isn’t really a case of sour grapes. Young people are less social, less sexually active, more socially anxious, all that. Not blaming them, they got dealt a weird hand of cards.
FFS, people were fucking and making babies in WWII ravaged Europe. Think they saw a bright future?
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I’m guessing you’re from the US and probably haven’t left there (at least for any country that isn’t wealthy or pretending to be in tourist areas)?
No. Speaking generally of stagnating wages, increasing right wing influence and media’s influence on the general population.
We’re humans. The end is always near, we’ve spent the last dozen eons or more basically failing upwards and constantly surviving the disasters we subject ourselves to. We’re the funniest act this side of the Milky Way, and it’s not going to stop just because we’re starting to notice what a mess we are.
All of history was a shitshow. There was not one century this side of the invention of agriculture where we didn’t commit war crimes. Hell, it took us thousands of years to come up with the idea of war crimes, the very idea that killing and enslaving everyone and salting their earth might not be super cool.
We suck, but it has worked out so far. Humanity is like cockroaches. We’ll manage. Badly, suffering, but we’ll manage.
Try to see humans the way elephants see us. We’re just these silly little fellas, you know?
So there’s no hope that we collectively decide that we need to get out of this together?
If you want the world to be some kind of way, your best hope is to be that kind of way and hope it catches on. Get yourself to a better place. If you’re keeping company with people who aren’t onboard with that, it will hold you back.
I don’t live in that world. I have too many issues for any of that to work, but even if that weren’t the case I probably couldn’t travel to wherever would be better for me.
Imma break out some tough love on ya.
I have too many issues
That’s learned helplessness, loser talk. “Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.” That quote is about an attitude, not intrinsic qualities or abilities.
couldn’t travel to wherever would be better
More failure talk. You make do with what’s in front of you. Dragging your body through space isn’t going to change you. Greener grass and whatnot.
I’m no psychologist, no idea how to break you out of this failure mode, but you really need help to cut that shit out. You got one shot at life, no more, go make shit happen for yourself. And if you’re already typing a reply full of excuses, you already lost.
So your advice to people who can’t afford rent, work a fulltime job and have just had their tent and all their possessions thrown in a dumpster for the second time this month is what exactly?
Do you advise someone who is incarcerated that if they simply ignore the bars they will no longer be there?
Ah yes, walk it off. Very helpful. Do you think real issues don’t exist? Especially in the US now?
“If you feel like shit, just grind bro”. Doing what, exactly? Lots of options are oversaturated or having layoffs. Rent is a racket and there are people who work full-time “essential” jobs (like professors and nurses) living in their car. I cannot even afford nor do I want a car, and if I was living outside where I’m at I’d be at risk for heat stroke because my body cannot sweat enough for even mild heat. Also, I am nearly nowhere.
I can prepare and sauté vegetables, sweep, carry things, do various computer things. Is that enough to live off of? Even at my best, probably not! Could I maybe work something out with people? I’m a shut-in with the social skills of a rock, so that’s not likely either. EDIT: forgot to say bike riding, but again that’s also difficult with heat
Have I already lost? Yeah maybe, but the issues (both internal and external) are more than excuses. It if got me out of here I’d be a shitty cook on a boat (I also probably can’t swim, no ID/passport) but it doesn’t work like that anymore. Solo projects and crowd-funding are just as delusional.
You’ve been dealt a really rough hand. The way it should work is that your community would see that you mean well and want to contribute, and support an ongoing effort to make that happen.
We don’t live in the world of should, but imo you do need a community of any kind. I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say it should be your top priority to make at least one IRL friend and making the absolute most of it. They don’t have to be perfect, but they do have to reciprocate the friendship.
Once you have one, it’s easier to make more. Everything is easier with a community. Keep a journal, write about your efforts, write about the people you might try to talk to. Try anything. There’s a loneliness epidemic out there, so chances are good there are people just like you who are waiting for someone to make the first move. I hope you find each other.
And there we have it. The predicted list of excuses.
Can you not see how making excuses is no way to live the one life you’ll ever get?! Can you imagine a counselor saying, yeah, that’s normal, you should probably give up and die, soonest best?!
I’ve had a lot going both for me and against me in this life. But I never fucking said “can’t”. I’ve lost much, won much, but I’ve never rolled up in a ball and cried that I was helpless. Your attitude is so self-defeating it makes me sad. You need counseling and don’t seem to know it.
I do what I can, I have my ups and downs too. You did better, good for you… maybe if we swapped you could fix my life, or maybe it’s just an anecdote and there is no way to tell.
Yeah, I know I need a lot of things (including healthcare and therapy) but healthcare is a mess here especially rural and if I could use any programs now (especially with waiting lists etc) I expect said access will be cut before needed follow-ups are done.
You can pin the blame on mentality all you like, but it doesn’t make the country any less of multiple unmitigated disasters.
Oligarchy is nothing compared what’s in store due to global warming. These are the good times…
The rich and powerful have been in control for a long time. Before capitalism, it was monarchies under feudalism, 10x worse than today. Back then, there weren’t much of medical knowledge and medicine that prolong lifespans; people had much shorter lives and died young. Think Human Rights are being infringed by your leaders? Human rights weren’t even a widespread concept back then. Police brutality and suppressing protests? Back then they’d just start killing on sight. You don’t get jail time, they cut your heads off. We have made so much progress overall in Human Rights (although some countries are still lacking behind, its overall much better these days)
To put things in perspective, Homo Sapiens were near extinctions for most of its history. We managed to survived this long. Maybe everyone worldwide will wake up tomorrow with an emergency alert on our phones (aka: Global Nuclear War), or maybe not. Only time will tell.
The great filter isn’t a one time thing, the universe will always be throwing challenges at living beings, but some will evolve and thrive. I mean, 50-70 years ago, people were like: “well this is it, everyone is gonna die in a nuclear blast”, well… here we are.
But don’t lose hope. Whatever happens, enjoy the time you have left. Don’t stress about it too much. Don’t let defeatism ruin your mood.
Been rereading Vonnegut, a hero of mine, the last two weeks. Stunning to see him outline the exact same societal and environmental ills back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
OTOH, we hadn’t drove our ecosystems off a cliff until recently.
According to the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), the average size of monitored wildlife populations has declined by 73% since 1970.
Back then, there weren’t much of medical knowledge and medicine that prolong lifespans; people had much shorter lives and died young.
That seems a bit incorrect. Of course medicine made a big leap over the last two centuries, but it was not worthless before.
Also people had good chances to reach their 60ies or even 70ies once they survived their first 15 years.
It is more difficult to change course after you pass a turning point, but never impossible. Even if we have passed it, we need to keep working to improve the situation. The only certainty is that giving up will not make things better.
No. No. No. What?
I welcomed globalisation. But it seems to have been twisted by the right wing into ‘immigrants taking our limited jobs’ and now into ‘deport the migrants/ lock the borders’ rethoric. Would this have happened with more equitable distribution of wealth? I frankly don’t know.
